I think you are correct in thinking more people are moving to Europe from the US. What with the cheaper cost of living (especially housing) the ability to do remote working and in the case of retirees the various visa they can get, more Americans are seeing Europe as a feasible option to the US.

 

The same is happening on the & Italy forums. There have also been discussions in the international general forums, where it's more about moving away from the US rather than to a particular country

 

Definitely - I live in Spain now, but several friends have recently reached out also wanting to move here with the current state of US politics (not to wade into that). Plus, the cost of living makes it appealing.

 

That is what I was thinking! A big surge in folks from the USA, making enquiries on the forum. The question in my mind is how we class these new immigrants to Europe from the USA? For example, if someone is an 'economic' immigrant, they move as they wish to move as they aspire to improve their economic circumstances. So if the move is a result of not liking the political situation in the USA now are they political immigrants, or if they aspire to live in a country that simply has a lower cost of living, are they also simply 'economic' immigrants?

 

I wonder how someone like myself would be labeled. I'm cynical about the US future as it relates to; healthcare, safety, education and economy. All are on the decline with no sight of improvement in the future. The thought of spending decades in Gaza with our military is upsetting enough!

 

There seems to be a big surge in inquiries about moving out of the US. But I notice, too, more on YouTube and CNN and similar online places about failed attempts of Americans to expatriate themselves. This is today's example: https://www.cnn.com/travel/american-woman-relocates-to-spain-but-returns-home

 

That should be required reading for anyone thinking of moving to Spain.

She really didn't do her homework though, did she?

 

Saying that, those moving to Europe won't be complaining about cost of living in US and it's mainly very wealthy people who qualify for a Visa. Lots also in Ireland because of Irish heritage etc.

 

Well Mr Crawford above said lots were moving due to cheaper cost of living, so they are clearly economic immigrants, and he also referred to those to work remotely in Europe but they would be work migrants. Even of they come to retire here on a golden visa, buy a property, they are still coming due to the lower cost of living (Spain & Portugal), so again still economic immigrants!

Lots of Americans moving to ireland, no!

"According to a spokesperson for Ireland's Central Statistics Office, only some 5,900 Americans migrated to Ireland in 2023. Surprisingly, that figure is fairly consistent for the last five years. The highest figure was 6,700 in 2019, towards the end of the Trump error."

Are Americans moving to Ireland?

IrishCentral Contributor Walter Murphy looks at how many Americans are moving to Ireland and spoke to some about why they made the move.

www.irishcentral.com

.

 

Well Mr Crawford above said lots were moving due to cheaper cost of living, so they are clearly economic immigrants, and he also referred to those to work remotely in Europe but they would be work migrants. Even of they come to retire here on a golden visa, buy a property, they are still coming due to the lower cost of living (Spain & Portugal), so again still economic immigrants!

Everybody who moves abroad for personal reasons is an economic migrant, even a Spanish person moving to for example. Wanting material improvements, better standard of living doesn't necessarily mean cheaper cost of living which also differs from town to town.

economic migrant

Definition(s)A person who leaves their country of origin purely for economic reasons that are not in any way related to the refugee definition, in...

home-affairs.ec.europa.eu

 

But then, now I am now puzzled about how one would distinguish between an immigrant and an expat?

 

It's mainly used in English speaking countries, some would say foreigner.

The difference between an expat and an immigrant? Semantics

The argument that it's not just executives and professionals that can be dubbed expats, but also maids and other workers

www.bbc.com

expatriate

1. someone who does not live in their own country: 2. living in a country that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

someone who does not live in their own country:

migrant

1. a person that travels to a different country or place, often in order to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

a person that travels to a different country or place, often in order to find work:

 

Ditto xabiaxica, I considered myself to be an immigrant!

You know, the term 'immigrant' has so many connotations and is so charged, for Americans

But the question that remain burning in my mind, is what the Americans moving to Europe consider themselves, as i havent seen an answer from an American, on this specific point yet?

 

Ditto xabiaxica, I considered myself to be an immigrant!

You know, the term 'immigrant' has so many connotations and is so charged, for Americans

But the question that remain burning in my mind, is what the Americans moving to Europe consider themselves, as i havent seen an answer from an American, on this specific point yet?

Alien: Alien is a legal term that refers to any person who is not a citizen or a national of the United States, as listed in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

 

Cheap, fairly exotic, warm. WFH in a cafe while soaking up the rays and people watching. No commute. No dress code. Natives are friendly and speak English. Sounds great, does it not. Often the first hello moment is an unexpected medical issue be It personal or family in the US. True WFH positions are slowly being phased out. That is hello moment number two - how to pay the rent.
Does anyone here look at returning numbers to the US and Canada which has very high numbers leaving? Let's not even talk about returning within Europe.

 

The first 'hello' moment is often when they realise that they need a visa & that most visas mean that they can't legally work, not even remotely.

On the Spain forum we used to get lots of US citizens who were shocked that they could just enter Spain & slide into life here.

In my time living here I've met irl several American families who came here, put their kids in private school thinking that they could 'get away with it' only to find that they couldn't. All quickly returned to the US when a visit home screwed things up. Two families that I kept in touch with later applied for visas & were refused because of the previous overstay.

Now the Brits are in the same boat & often even more shocked... even 5 years after actual Brexit.

 

If they go back, they are migrants, not immigrants.

 

They all start out as immigrants.

 

Hello 3rd step indeed, but so far it's all 3rd person and I waiting for 1st person conformation from someone coming from the USA to live in Europe.

I'm beginning to get that feeling that the term 'immigrant' is for others, but not US citizens relocating to another country, but I'm living in hope, and waiting to be proven wrong...

These immigrant, alien, asylum seeker and refuge are all so distasteful...

 

Hello 3rd step indeed, but so far it's all 3rd person and I waiting for 1st person conformation from someone coming from the USA to live in Europe.

I'm beginning to get that feeling that the term 'immigrant' is for others, but not US citizens relocating to another country, but I'm living in hope, and waiting to be proven wrong...

These immigrant, alien, asylum seeker and refuge are all so distasteful...

It is what it is. You can beat around the bush but an immigrant is an immigrant, an sylum seeker is an asylum seeker and a refuge is a refuge.

 

That should be required reading for anyone thinking of moving to Spain.

She really didn't do her homework though, did she?

There was another CNN article I posted over in the forum about Americans who were complaining about the limp celery they found in the grocery stores in . First article indicated they were planning on returning to the US - and then there was the election in November. For whatever reason, the Americans were considering sticking around and learning to live with the limp celery.

I think one of the issues is that Americans are too used to being able to just up sticks and move from the East Coast to the West Coast or anywhere in between with no need for visas, permissions or anything else other than enough money to find a place to live. (Getting more and more difficult as I understand these days.) Similar to some of the "culture shock" many Brits are going through since Brexit. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

And don't forget that the US was founded by folks who just up and moved any time their situation didn't suit them. (Joke is that they kept moving westward until they finally hit the Pacific coast. Hence why California has so many "liberals" and "wackos.") That isn't really possible any more, at least not internationally, with the implementation of visas and residence permits and all (a "feature" of the early 20th century).

Does anyone here look at returning numbers to the US and Canada which has very high numbers leaving?

Heck, the US doesn't have any idea how many of its citizens are living outside the US. Any figures cited are mere estimates from the various embassies and consulates. And there are even fewer official figures on Americans who return to the US after living abroad. Or of Americans who renounce their US citizenship once they are abroad.

 

On Brexit

Similar to some of the "culture shock" many Brits are going through since Brexit. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I think I have to challenge that statement a bit...

I along with those who valued the four freedoms that the EU offer, voted against Brexit.
We were very much aware that leaving the EU was a terrible idea.

Those that voted for Brexit, regret their decision now, but won't it it.

Not sure what you mean when you refer to a 'culture shock'.

 

I was just about to post that at least she didn't complain about the celery ..........she made it sound like that there was little information available 4-5 years ago or whoever, which is total bollix.

 

There has been a gigantic surge in enquiries from Americans "trying to get out" all across platforms on the internet. First directly after the elections and again since the inauguration.

 

And how many have actually packed up and left?

 

They'll have a more comfortable journey back to Europe, whence their ancestors came from.

 

He turned 84 last week.

 

'Culture shock' is too gentle to describe Brits running foul of the post Brexit travel or immigration rules landscape.

I prefer 'rude awakening', but also those who voted against Brexit were generally more aware of the wider implications of Brexit. Those who voted for, were choosing to stick their heads in the sand.

One recurring theme on the Spanish forum, is the number of folks who have built themselves up to moving to Spain, and suddenly when they post their plans they are informed there is a major obstacle to them realising their dream to move, which can be for a variety of reasons.

 

but also those who voted against Brexit were generally more aware of the wider implications of Brexit.

Just because you didn't vote for Brexit doesn't mean much when it comes to having to live with the consequences. (Something the Americans seem to be just finding out now in the wake of all the stupid changes being rammed through by "executive" actions over there.) In the Real World, you roll with the punches and you change your plans as appropriate depending on what obstacles come up.

 

Absolutely agree with your comments in fact Tim.
America is a settler colony, i.e. boot out the locals and take over.
But doesn't that resonate with what is happening today, in one part of the world, in particular.
This in fact proves that the colonial mindset remains forefront of foreign policy of the USA/UK, even today.

 

But doesn't that resonate with what is happening today, in one part of the world, in particular.

Gaza quickly comes to mind.

 

This appears to be getting way off the subject here. Could we rein this in a bit, please?

 

Now that I think of it, since we initially came to Spain for just a year, for that year we were 'expats'.
Only when we decided to stay here (as permanently as anything can be permanent) did we become 'immigrants'.

 

I love being an immigrant in Spain.
I can't imagine anywhere better to live than Spain!

 

Just like last time Trump won, there are a lot of people considering moving because of that. This is in addition to all the people who are/would be considering moving, regardless of who was elected. So, there are more now considering it.
As I recall the most well-known of these people (Hollywood actors/stars/Internet celebrities) in the end did NOT move. At least some of the reason may have been that they found out the details of making the move, and it was too much. That would also be true of the other group of people as well.
It's not really any different from any other major life change that people consider undertaking. They start out very enthused, but not knowledgeable. As time es, they collect information and the negatives come up.
There's a psychology concept of a double approach-avoidance conflict that comes to mind.

Regards

 

I hope Conor Mc Gregor immigrants to America, soon!

 

I don't believe it's just Spain. I think there's a growing number of American's that see the decline of the quality of life and it's not going to get better. Just a couple of major issues; safety, healthcare and education. In the US, our children are getting killed in schools. Mass shootings on indiscriminate citizens at large gatherings, churches and supermarkets. Half the country wants solutions while the other half wants more guns. The carnage will continue. The US has great education for the wealthy and wants to cut funding for the poor schools. Now they want to get rid of the Dept. of Education. The idea of giving HS graduates a free education was met with disdain. The US system of educating for our youth is not improving. Healthcare, one side thinks it should be a right while the other wants to eliminate any Federal assistance. Our system is great for the wealthy but we don't want to give the poor any assistance. We spend more for our meds than any country on earth. It's not going to improve. There's more than those 3. We've seen the cost of living continue to increase and now it's going to continue with tariffs against our allies. The rich have taken over our politics and it's only going to get worse for your average citizen. Now, we're planning on spending billions to buy Gaza. We're going to lose our sons and daughters fighting for decades. So, some of us are seeing the future and the only solution is to get out.

 

As a dual national (Canadian/US), I along with my American husband are seriously considering leaving the USA. I've looked into the various options and really, the only practical one is to move to Canada where I have family and friends. Recent events have soured me on this country and you raise the gun issue which I see as worsening with no end in sight at least in my lifetime. The other points you make also show a society clearly on a surprisingly rapid decline. I'm in the process of getting a new Canadian port which will make the process of moving north far easier.

 

All say, WE need to be ready to adapt to that country's culture. If you're not ready to adapt, and you expect US standards, stay where you are.

It's the adaptation process that seems to foil most expat wannabees. Some folks have a misguided notion of "freedoms" they are somehow missing out on in the US and are startled to find out that the regulations in Spain, , elsewhere in Europe, or elsewhere in the world can be very different - and sometimes more constraining (though in different ways) than what they are running from in the US.

We've had quite a few folks through the forums here who inquire about how to import their firearms when moving to or elsewhere in Europe. Home schooling may or may not be an option in certain countries. Certain "basic" foods or products may or may not be available in some countries (and if a full blown trade war develops, that situation will get worse). And the language issue can become considerably more of a "language barrier" than someone anticipates.

The "cons" always turn out to be people who did little to no homework & moved with their rose-coloured glasses on.

Not "always" - I've seen people have to move back due to shifts in the currency exchange rates (if they are dependent on a pension or salary from "back home"). Or "family issues" that develop with no warning. This all comes back to the need for having a positive reason for moving TO a place and not just the desire to get AWAY FROM where you are coming from.

 

This all comes back to the need for having a positive reason for moving TO a place and not just the desire to get AWAY FROM where you are coming from.

Knub of the issue there!

But also the bit I don't get is why move half way around the planet in the first place. Lots of locations with sun, sea and sand, which are dead cheap, that are much closer to home. You've Mexico, lots of great places in South America and host of islands to choose from! All you've to do is learn a bit of Spanish or Portuguese and you're sorted.