[Alcalaina]

Why is there an increase in illegal immigrants to Spain if the Moroccan police crackdown? Do you mean that if the Moroccon police don't act the immigants stay in Morocco?

They take more risks to make the crossing quickly, e.g. rather than waiting for good weather they have been coming over on car tyres and inflatable dinghies when the Levante is blowing.

 

[mrypg9]

Immigrants are OK if they are rich and powerful. Roman Abramovich is an immigrant. Mark Carney is an immigrant. All those Premier League footballers from Spain, Brazil, Ukraine are immigrants.
We Brits, Italians, Scandinavians in Spain are immigrants although we Brits give ourselves airs by calling ourselves 'expats'..
But the poor, the dark-skinned, the desperate are viewed in a totally different way...simply because they are those things.
I'll say it again...I think anyone who advocates uncontrolled immigration needs reality check. No country in the world has open borders.
But we in the West are ageing fast..in fact we are in decline and have been for over a century, slowly so we're unaware of it but surely. We need new energy and most of the immigrants, especially those who take huge risks to reach their destination, certainly have energy and initiative and courage in spadesful.
The guy who fixed our satellite tv in Prague was an African, from Mozambique,Paul. He spoke fluent French, Czech, Spanish and English apart from his own language. He was a skilled tv and satellite technician who had regularised his status with the authorities and was working 100% legally. He lived alone and sent most of his money back to his family. When I asked him how he got to Europe he told me that I would not like to hear his story as it 'would make me very sad'. I didn't ask again.
The UK - and Italy - would be lucky to receive such a person as Paul. I'd swap ten idle, criminal Brits for one Paul.
How anyone can see people like that as a threat is beyond me.

 

[Pesky Wesky]

Immigrants are OK if they are rich and powerful. Roman Abramovich is an immigrant. Mark Carney is an immigrant. All those Premier League footballers from Spain, Brazil, Ukraine are immigrants.
We Brits, Italians, Scandinavians in Spain are immigrants although we Brits give ourselves airs by calling ourselves 'expats'..
But the poor, the dark-skinned, the desperate are viewed in a totally different way...simply because they are those things.
I'll say it again...I think anyone who advocates uncontrolled immigration needs reality check. No country in the world has open borders.
But we in the West are ageing fast..in fact we are in decline and have been for over a century, slowly so we're unaware of it but surely. We need new energy and most of the immigrants, especially those who take huge risks to reach their destination, certainly have energy and initiative and courage in spadesful.
The guy who fixed our satellite tv in Prague was an African, from Mozambique,Paul. He spoke fluent French, Czech, Spanish and English apart from his own language. He was a skilled tv and satellite technician who had regularised his status with the authorities and was working 100% legally. He lived alone and sent most of his money back to his family. When I asked him how he got to Europe he told me that I would not like to hear his story as it 'would make me very sad'. I didn't ask again.
The UK - and Italy - would be lucky to receive such a person as Paul. I'd swap ten idle, criminal Brits for one Paul.
How anyone can see people like that as a threat is beyond me.

Yes, agree with much of that, but would like to add...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, which is an idea that I always find a little disconcerting... I mean, if our society is not capable of ing itself then isn't their something fundamentally "wrong", somewhere? Shouldn't alarm bells be going off that this is not sustainable???
Back to what I was saying...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, where's respect for others, the idea of helping each other, co operation, solidarity, and empathy as I said on another post???
Are they ideas to be laughed at along with tree hugger, hippy, dreamer; things that are so wildly out of date as to be sneered at?
Immigration can not be evaluated only along these lines, but it's a sad day for all of us when we stop treating people like people.

 

[Pesky Wesky]

Yes, agree with much of that, but would like to add...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, which is an idea that I always find a little disconcerting... I mean, if our society is not capable of ing itself then isn't their something fundamentally "wrong", somewhere? Shouldn't alarm bells be going off that this is not sustainable???
Back to what I was saying...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, where's respect for others, the idea of helping each other, co operation, solidarity, and empathy as I said on another post???
Are they ideas to be laughed at along with tree hugger, hippy, dreamer; things that are so wildly out of date as to be sneered at?
Immigration can not be evaluated only along these lines, but it's a sad day for all of us when we stop treating people like people.

Arrrgggh isn't there something wrong NOT their.
What is happening to me????????
Please change if poss and then erase this post...

 

[mrypg9]

Yes, agree with much of that, but would like to add...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, which is an idea that I always find a little disconcerting... I mean, if our society is not capable of ing itself then isn't their something fundamentally "wrong", somewhere? Shouldn't alarm bells be going off that this is not sustainable???
Back to what I was saying...
Apart from whether we "need" immigrants to fuel our labour markets in certain parts of the world, where's respect for others, the idea of helping each other, co operation, solidarity, and empathy as I said on another post???
Are they ideas to be laughed at along with tree hugger, hippy, dreamer; things that are so wildly out of date as to be sneered at?
Immigration can not be evaluated only along these lines, but it's a sad day for all of us when we stop treating people like people.

I think that most of us would take that view for granted, I certainly hope so.
But we have to be realistic. Western populations are ageing fast. We do need immigrants if we are to be able to provide enough revenue to look after all our oldies as well as providing a high level of other social services. We just aren't capable of ing ourselves for demographic reasons. Alongside this need for economic migrants though must go facilities for accepting genuine asylum seekers fleeing real persecution.

And immigration must be controlled for the sake of everyone. It's interesting how many second and third generation Brits of Asian, West Indian or African descent
express concerns about immigration from Eastern Europe. No country in the world allows unrestricted immigration.

Words like 'solidarity', 'empathy' and so on are meaningless as abstracts and cannot always be applied without reservation in real, specific social and economic situations. In real life, choices have to be made which means preferences. Sometimes these words get thrown around as when we read about 'Solidarity with Cuba' or 'Workers Solidarity' which usually means no more than expressing half-hearted or raising a clenched fist at a demo.

As I see it, real 'solidarity' can only evolve from real relationships in specific local contexts which can evolve into a wider sphere. It encomes mutuality, reciprocity, respect but these qualities essential for any good society flourish best in conditions of economic stability.

I think education is the cornerstone of this.

 

[raymonterencegilbert]

This is one area that Australia has a terrible policy on considering we were the original "boat people".

It's ever so embarrassing.

How did you come to that conclusion boat people...lol English navey/army..colonised Australia..with English laws.educatsion/way of traditional European way of life..yes penal colonis .rightly wrongley an early way to in crease population on there release.not all.but most had a Christian up bringing
which I imagine wasn't a bad thing ..we're still pomms but there happy to be part of the union just my opinion